Nori Rebrand

In honor of Earth Day and with a very timely rebrand, we have Senior Marketing Manager at Nori, Heidi Sloane, on the show to discuss their experience partnering with us on their new identity.

For context, Nori is on a mission to scale the carbon removal industry, with the ultimate goal of reversing climate change. With a fully-integrated approach to creating, managing and selling verified carbon removals they seek to simplify a complicated market while increasing transparency, trust, efficiency, and impact.

Tune is as Heidi and Bill discuss how Nori knew they were ready to elevate their brand, the biggest challenges and rewards of the project, and a few hidden gems of the Odi process that ended up being a pleasant surprise.

Check out the full case study: https://odibrand.agency/work/n...

00:00 - Intro

04:25 - How did you know it was time to invest in brand?

10:10 - What were you looking for in a rebrand partner?

13:23 - What was the most challenging part of the rebrand?

18:00 - The rewards and ROI of the Nori rebrand

21:50 - Odi Process Highlights: SMIT (Single Most Important Thing) and Brand Attributes

27:45 - What advice do you have for someone approaching a rebrand?

Full Transcript:

[Bill Kenney]

Hey everyone. This is Bill Kenney, CEO and co-founder of Focus Lab and Odi, two global B2B brand agencies. I'm back with another episode of The Debrief. As a reminder, The Debrief is a series where I sit down with past partners of ours to pull back the curtain and discuss what it's truly like to go through a rebrand from the client that has to go on that journey from start to finish. Really helpful conversations and understanding what that's like. If you're considering going through any brand work or a full rebrand, this is definitely the series for you.

In this episode, in honor of Earth month, I'm sitting down with Heidi Sloane. She leads marketing at a company called Nori. You can check them out at nori.com. I would propose that you do that. They are doing good things. So it was extra special to work with them and also to sit down with Heidi and talk about what Nori does: carbon capture. But further, and more importantly for this episode, how Nori went through the rebrand.

They came in actually thinking it was going to just be a refresh and how that transformed into a full rebrand. In the conversation, I found out that Heidi listened to a Nori podcast before she worked there.

Had a vision in her mind of what Nori might look like and sound like. Went to their website. It did not match. So when I asked her the question, how did you know that it was time for Nori to rebrand? Her answer was, I knew it before I even joined the company. Haven't heard that answer before and everything in between.

We talk about the challenges, what was most surprising and we end on what she would share with anybody as her number one tip before going into a rebrand. I hope you enjoy another valuable episode.

[Bill Kenney]

Heidi, fantastic to meet you on this beautiful balmy. I think it's 75 here. You're in the city. I'm in New Jersey. Uh, we're finally getting into true spring but let's start with you. Could you just take a minute and just introduce yourself to everybody and say who you are and what you do at Nori.

[Heidi Sloane]

My name's Heidi. I'm a senior marketing manager at Nori. Nori is a climate startup. Depending who we're talking to, the answer is quite different, but technically we create, manage and sell, carbon removal credits, which really means that we make it easy for businesses to drive climate impact, whether that means supporting regenerative agriculture in the US or compensating for their emissions or building climate into their products through integrations. So it's all about connecting the businesses who are out there removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere with the businesses who want to drive positive climate impact and connecting them together in a way that is as high integrity and quality as possible.

[Bill Kenney]

Love that. Yeah. You're, you've become a super connector on this one topic.

[Heidi Sloane]

Yeah. It's a complicated topic and it isn't like at the core, it's just about trying to stop or even reverse climate change and connecting the people. who know how to intervene and do that with the people who can help fund it. But then if you want to get into the weeds, it's like carbon science and the life cycle of what happens.

Yeah, we don't need to go there though.

[Bill Kenney]

Roger that. Understood. Understood. Okay, great. So, as a nod to Earth Day, we are in April. And, this is why I wanted to sit down and speak with you. So this is the first time you and I are meeting, which I say multiple times in videos.

Now that's not rare. I'm not on all the projects. I see all that project work happening though. I actually reviewed the brand guidelines again this morning just to bring myself up to speed.

75 pages of beautiful effort there. Both parties really came together to create something special. Yeah. Yeah, it looks fantastic. So let's talk about that whole process of what it's like to go through that because the goal is for us simply to talk about branding or rebranding, like literally what it is like, not about what it says on our website, what it is like as someone like yourself to go through that.

And that all starts with this idea. Hey, I think we should invest in brand. So you came to that position. At some point, how did you know, though, that it was time to take brand seriously? Mmm.

[Heidi Sloane]

Huh. I wanted to take brand, like I wanted to rethink and refine Nori's brand before I even joined the company. So for me, it was, it was always, always on the table. But I think Nori as a company has matured considerably, like when we started out just had soil carbon just focused on regenerative agriculture. We still do that. It's still at our core, but we're kind of focused less on just the marketplace side and looking at the full issuing program, registry, marketplace fully integrated.

So. Yeah. 50/50. Market has evolved. Nori has evolved and it was time to kind of bring our visual brand to meet us where we were going.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah, I would just share that that’s very common. And I think it's, it's important for the people listening and watching to know that as well, that there are these maturity inflection points, if you will, that happened within business cycles, whether it's I've just started out and I need to not look like I'm in a basement.

Okay, that's like step one phase one. Then there's we've been around for a while and we've learned more about who we are now and we need to match that. Then there's now we're growing in even newer markets and, or maybe we're trying to fundraise at a different level or we're being acquired and there's mergers and acquisitions of us acquiring people and we need to mature the brand again, again, again, so there's different stages.

It's very clear what you're saying and why you would have to invest in brand. It's something that's interesting that you said, though, you said, I don't want to paraphrase here. Basically, you were thinking about the Nori brand before you even joined.

So this was a company you already knew about. And you knew it needed it.

[Heidi Sloane]

Yeah. I first heard about Nori on a podcast. So I heard about Nori before I saw Nori.

[Bill Kenney]

Very interesting.

[Heidi Sloane]

Um, One of the co-founders, Paul, super smart. He was talking about what Nori is doing differently than a lot of the other companies, and it, A: overcame a lot of my initial resistance to the idea of carbon credits because there's a lot of baggage with that but B: made me really excited about what Nori was doing.

I signed up for their newsletter, started following them and keeping tabs on them, but there was definitely a shift between just hearing Paul talk and like how, crisp and legitimate and like, just big head nodding from me. And then like going to the website, um, the visuals kind of felt a little bit like, like it wasn't matching, something wasn't lining up.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah. That's a golden nugget.

[Heidi Sloane]

As somebody who loves brand, I, I would much rather work for a company that has a brand that leaves room for improvement, but has a really substantial, high integrity business model beneath it, than join a company that has like a beautiful flashy brand, but then it's a paper house.

[Bill Kenney]

Yes. Yeah. Very well said. I love that take. I'm really glad that you said that little item. That's often not something that's ever discussed in these episodes. This idea that you listened to a podcast, you had a vision in your mind of how it might present itself to the world, and when you saw it, it didn't match, you recognized there was room for improvement.

If that's not at the heart of the impact of brand and why it matters, I don't know what is, right. What if you didn't listen to that podcast and you were a buyer. What, what is that perception gap going to do from getting a buyer to actually say, I believe in this, I'm going to buy, right?

[Heidi Sloane]

Right.

[Bill Kenney]

It’s a provocative thought to think about, right?

It's almost like you never know who's walking by your storefront that doesn't come in and brand can't solve all of that, but jeeze it has a pretty big impact on that.

[Heidi Sloane]

Right, definitely. I think something you said earlier about the stage of a company and I think the stage of the market to if we're getting to a point where people are searching for carbon removal, like they may never interact with Nori in person. They could just buy directly through our website if they wanted to, and if they weren't seeking like a sales consultation.

So for those people, really, all they have to go on is the visual representation, the copy that's there.

[Bill Kenney]

Yes. Yeah, there you go

[Heidi Sloane]

Yeah, I think as we scale, it becomes more and more important because we're not able to meet everybody in person.

[Bill Kenney]

Well said that will probably open some eyes and ears and some brains that are watching going like, Oh, I never thought about it that way. And let's also not forget. People that haven't listened to a podcast, but are buying into that mission, don't have a vision in their mind, but end up on the website and go.

Oh, I don't know. I don't know that I like what I see. I hate to say things like that, but I, visual and the verbal and the narrative and all that being a tight ship versus just fragmented, even though the foundation, like you said, is strong, that makes recruitment harder because people can't understand the foundation until they're on the inside.

So all they can kind of go by sometimes is how somebody presents themself in the same way as a employer, you wouldn't want somebody showing up in a dumb t-shirt like I'm wearing, right? How people present themselves matters. It's the same on the other side.

[Heidi Sloane]

I think t-shirts are fine.

[Bill Kenney]

I appreciate that, Heidi. Thank you. Thank you.

All right. That was fantastic. We usually don't spend that much time on that question. And I think there was great insights there. You understood before you even joined that Nori needed its brand to elevate, but then you had to figure out who the hell to help you with that. So I'm less concerned about maybe exactly why you picked us but really help people understand. Maybe what it's like to go through that search and maybe what matters in that search so it's easier for them.

[Heidi Sloane]

When we were searching for a partner for this, we looked at a range of options. Some were individuals and some were agencies. And I think what attracted us to first Focus Lab and then Odi was the niche focus on B2B. Personally, I come from more of a B2C background, and so I have it identified for me as a little bit of like an area, a learning curve where I would feel more confident in the process if the partner on it was from a B2B background that could kind of balance me out or, uh, enable me to learn, complement it in that way.

And of the options we were looking at, Focus Lab was the only one that was B2B focused exclusively. And also, um, I originally found Focus Lab through Emily Kramer. Do you know her?

[Bill Kenney]

Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. I was gonna feel really bad. I'm like, oh, God, am I gonna be like, I don't know them. Yes.

[Heidi Sloane]

Well, she's one of those people in marketing who I like, I weigh her recommendations fairly highly. She's a great source of information and recommendations and like strategy advice for marketing and especially for product marketing. But she had Focus Lab as one of the recommended agencies, and more specifically for B2B.

And then I spoke with someone from your team about Focus Lab and they told me about Odi and based on Nori's stage and what we were looking to do It seemed like Odi would be a better fit for us, but under the same family.

[Bill Kenney]

Right. Yeah. Same expertise, same quality, just a more of a specific offering. Shout out to Emily. Yes. Sorry. I have not actually met her, which was the gap.

[Heidi Sloane]

I haven't met her either. I'm like.

[Bill Kenney]

It's like so many names, so many LinkedIn connections. Okay. I love the B2B specificity call out. That was very intentional on our side. I've often told myself, and I guess now it's true that if we're going up against other agencies and that company is looking for that type of focus that we would then stand out.

I'm happy to hear, thank you for sharing that it's working.

[Heidi Sloane]

Yeah, for sure the other thing that I liked, that I specifically remember, so we were looking at individuals and we were looking at agencies and with individuals, like one of the things that I liked was that I would know who I'd be working with. Like, so, you know, you hire them, you get them. And with Odi or Focus Lab, I liked that we were going to get like the agency experience, but still have senior level people, still have like the designated people that we're working with each week.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah. Uh, thank you for calling that out. So let's, so let's get into the project now. Let's talk about the realities in the actual work. No rebrand is ever easy. We should never tell ourselves they're ever going to be easy. So my first question is, let's start with the challenges. What do you think was the most challenging aspect of the journey?

[Heidi Sloane]

Hmm. Most challenging. I think, we went into it thinking we wanted a brand refinement

[Bill Kenney]

Oh right, right.

[Heidi Sloane]

And we ended up doing a pretty full rebrand. And so, I think maybe one of the challenges was just like trying to gauge how, how different we wanted to make it. And it was funny because when we were starting out and talking with all these different potential design partners. We didn't have logo in our scope. That wasn't something we were looking to change. There was a lot that like, kind of internally we were aligned, that we wanted to our visual language. Like rethink font, rethink, like are we using photo? How are we using photo? What colors we're using, etc.

But logo was fine. Like, we were happy with it. It's, you know, it had a cute little down arrow, which symbolizes the permanent offset coming down to the atmosphere, a mountain showing it's getting stored in the ground. And we're from Seattle, the company. So it made sense of the Pacific Northwest mountain scapes.

But every agency and designer that we spoke to wanted to include logo in the scope. They're like, Oh, like, maybe we'll just like explore. And then once we started seeing options. Like there was kind of like, okay, maybe we do want to do the logo too. Like if, if people are wanting to include it in this scope, we should open the door and see that. But I think one of the challenges for us is that, logo was one of the first things to be explored.

Like, I think your process goes: colors, typefaces, logos, as like maybe the early three things that get established. And for us, we entered it, not necessarily wanting a new logo. So without having the rest of the visual language built out, trying to like sell ourselves internally on these new logos kind of relatively in isolation was a challenge because we were like, I don't know.

We liked our other logo. Do we want to change it? But what really helped was at some point we put pause on the logo question, continued building out the rest of the Nori world and the rest of the visual language. And then we were able to come back to the logo with this idea of like, okay, would our old logo really fit into this new visual brand?

And then if not, like, how can we now approach logo in a way where we know its place in the world or we know what we're trying to achieve with it?

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah. Not an easy journey, right? Especially with items that are largely subjective in a lot of ways and multiple perspectives and opinions on a subjective thing. Uh, yeah.

[Heidi Sloane]

And even just from like a product perspective, some people on our team were like, you know, like rolling out a full rebrand, like all the places that we're going to have to implement it. Um, but we, we aligned on the end, we, we rolled it out across all the places of which there are many, uh, definitely don't underestimate the implementation side.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah, there's there's the tip and a takeaway already. Definitely don't underestimate the implementation side. Okay. So, so, yeah, I like how you kind of expressed that experience for you, which is like, okay, well, we started with logo. So that was hard. So we kind of had to pause it, work through it. Sometimes people need to start there. Sometimes people don't need to start there.

Even from the agency side, you don't really know cause every group is different. So we try to stick to our process, if you will. And then we adapt to what is happening in the moment of the project. Okay. It's better for us to not do this just yet. Okay. We'll work on these other things.

We'll come back around. That also gives some breathing room. Like you said, for the team to, all right, can we just not start there? Cause that's the thing that maybe it was like, we're most nervous about. Okay, cool. We hear you.

[Heidi Sloane]

Yeah. Yeah. I appreciated that flexibility.

[Bill Kenney]

That's an important part. Flexibility is everything in a project.

[Heidi Sloane]

And also the logo is just like one piece of the brand too, you know? So for

[Bill Kenney]

It will inform and what it won't inform. It's not, it's not about that A to B to C it's just about, can we communicate and navigate it together as a partnership without getting frustrated and scared. Communication is the glue that holds all the pieces together, whether the pieces move to different places.

[Heidi Sloane]

Sure.

[Bill Kenney]

So, okay. Logo, all conversations lead to logo. What about, uh, the most rewarding aspect of the project

[Heidi Sloane]

I would say the most rewarding part of the process is now, like, just feeling good about sending people to our website.

[Bill Kenney]

Hey, how much is that worth? A lot.

[Heidi Sloane]

Internally we had, um, a little bug bash. So we coupled our brand implementation with a web flow migration. We were on a very challenging CMS before, like website builder before that gave marketing very little control, we had to bug product about a lot of things we couldn't control, like the spacing or the size of the text things that, like, how, how, how would you not be able to control that?

But, um, so we're doing Webflow migration while doing the brand implementation and. We did a bug bashing event internally once we had the new website kind of ready to publish, but wanted to make sure we weren't missing any like old content that might have still been stuck there or any broken links.

And one of our teammates from the product team is like, wow, like, I feel like, like, Nori is like grown up or like, I feel so proud and professional to work here. And we're like, yes.

[Bill Kenney]

Yes.

[Heidi Sloane]

So that felt good. We also, it's hard to share anything concrete, but we've seen some new opportunities open to us.

And you don't know if it's correlation or causation, but, since using the new branding, like it's gone hand in hand with some good opportunities for us.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah. Really happy to hear that. I love the point you talked about internal. I think that a lot of people think about external, the opportunities bit, right? Do we have a 75% increase in our intake form and how, at what percentage are we converting higher than before? That will show up over time, as you know, right?

Even if it's years and years, right for that truly to manifest itself. Brands also mature and get stronger. But the internal immediate feel, wow, we feel more grown up and I'm proud, even more proud to work here again. Like what's that worth as a business owner? If your whole team feels that way.

[Heidi Sloane]

And they weren't even, they weren't even on the marketing team, which I feel like is important to say, because like, of course, I feel better.

[Bill Kenney]

Yes. Yes.

[Heidi Sloane]

If somebody outside the marketing team feels that way, too, it feels like an extra win.

[Bill Kenney]

That's a huge win. And let's not even understate that it really is a huge one. Every business owner wants everyone on their team to want to rally behind the flag. And it might seem surface level or silly to just say, and a rebrand will do that. And it's like, well, it's not silly. It can actually do that.

And it's not, that's not an effect of a color choice or a logo, right? That's just realigning everything back to center. This is what we're doing. This is why it matters. And now we're going to present ourselves in a certain way. This is how we dress now. If you will, people are like, hell yeah. Yeah, this is, I like this, right?

That energy is worth a lot. And that will also longtail lead to great things within the business. Great call out. Thank you for sharing that.

[Heidi Sloane]

Yeah, you're welcome.

[Bill Kenney]

So you beat me to the next question and we just, we really hit the nail on the head which was going to be, What are you seeing as a result of this?

We really just nailed that. So I'm going to hit you with the big final question, which is if you were sitting down with a friend, colleague, or another business owner, and they just wanted the most important point you could give them what they should do, should not do consider, et cetera, as they enter a rebrand, what would be the one most important thing?

[Heidi Sloane]

Ooh, it's funny that you're asking for the one most important thing because in your process, it's the single most important thing that anchors. Yeah. Um, which is one of the best parts of the process. I would say, by the way, as an aside, it's something we still use internally.

[Bill Kenney]

Let's sit on that for a second, then let's, let's open that up. So you're talking about, uh, the SMIT, the single most important thing is the acronym and that is our version of trying to find a North Star in the Odi process. And again, let me, let me go long here for a little bit.

Focus Lab: much larger projects. You're talking about M&A and brand architecture stuff. You're talking about messaging frameworks and verbal identity. You're talking about visual identity with sub brands. That sometimes is up to six weeks of work where Odi is a six weeks visual identity sprint.

But you still got to anchor it to something, right? You can't just make stuff. There still has to be a purpose. So the SMIT, the single most important thing, helps to drive that. Do you remember what your SMIT was offhand?

[Heidi Sloane]

Yes, it was science based sanguine, and we said we weren't gonna share the sanguine bit externally because it has, at least when it's written, it looks very, like, bloody.

[Bill Kenney]

Oh, interesting.

[Heidi Sloane]

You don’t get, it means, yeah, sanguine means like optimism in the, even though there's challenges and it's a really specific meeting that works perfectly with what Nori is trying to do because we are science based in our approach and our methodologies and like the rigors there, um, but also we wouldn't be doing what we're doing if we weren't optimistic about our Our ability to move the needle on climate change, but also it's climate change.

So it's a big challenge.

[Bill Kenney]

Yes.

[Heidi Sloane]

Yeah. And why it was so helpful was because we had so many stakeholders that we had to align. Not like get consensus from, but during the feedback rounds, when we had different feedback from different people, even within our project group, we had our own points of view, being able to anchor in the SMIT and say, okay, does this achieve this.

[Bill Kenney]

Mm hmm.

[Heidi Sloane]

And that was kind of an unlock for us to be able to, if something was successfully achieving the single most important thing, but somebody didn't like it, It was kind of okay that somebody didn't like it because it was achieving what we wanted it to achieve.

And we also knew we weren't going to create something that everybody was going to love every single element of.

[Bill Kenney]

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, thank you for busting into that kind of like side point. Um, I often forget about those little touch points that happen within a project and it's not clear to me cause it's always different. What is the most impactful unlock for a particular team as part of the process? Yeah, that's great.

[Heidi Sloane]

We do like the brand attributes that we anchored in on. We're scientific, enduring, and optimistic, and we do reference those now pretty frequently, especially if we're working on visual work. If we're doing something, we kind of will have a scale almost and be like, okay, like, what level of optimistic is this meant to be versus enduring?

And it helps us kind of calibrate.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah. The 3 word exercise has a special place in my heart. I've been to even onsites where I do it collectively with these large teams and I see these large groups on the client side, try to move a lot of words around on the table and the 3 words that they end up at and they feel a sense of alignment and it's those words themselves are maybe not all that hard to come up with and maybe if y'all dedicated some time and sat around, you could come up with 3 words, but there's something about kind of the magic that happens in a project.

There's a level of accountability. Okay, we're both here together. Now there's the agency side. There's your side. Okay. We're going to go through words together. We're going to talk about them. Why do they matter? Oh, why'd you pick that word? What does that mean? Cause we need that to help inform the work we're going to do, but then it also creates even more alignment on the client side.

And people are like, I have so much more important work to do, but as a rebrand project, you have to do it. And then at the end of it, you're like, hey, that was actually really helpful. I'm glad I was forced to prioritize that. Yes.

[Heidi Sloane]

We had done an internal brand workshop before this process and before we got any of your like pre-homework. And when we were working through attributes, the things that kept bubbling to the top were like trustworthy and approachable. And then when we got kind of the homework from you guys or like the prep work, it was like you can't choose trustworthy.

You can't choose approachable. Those are table stakes — every modern brand is expected to be those. So your process also forced us to choose more specific and intentional ones. Like for us, trustworthy is enduring. It's transparency. It's science-based.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah. Love it. Love it. Love it. And again, that's where the value of a partner comes in. It's not to say people can't do great work on their own, but it is an unlock to have outside perspectives that understand. Just brand in general, but also just help people like, hey, what if you thought about it this way?

What about these types of thoughts? What do you think? You're like, Oh, wow, thank you for that. You're still the hero of your own journey, though, right? It still takes you all to kind of determine what those words are. We can't just pick the magic words for you. But with the unlock, I'll keep coming back to that word that you started with.

I think is the right word. We are literally there to unlock that. So, so.

[Heidi Sloane]

Yeah, I was going to go back to your other question.

[Bill Kenney]

Yes. Yes. I know there are many takeaways, so I understand the challenge of trying to determine one, but what's the, like, you can't. I can't not tell you as you lead into this project,

[Heidi Sloane]

I think making sure the person or people who are going to be implementing it are in the room or like actively involved in the project, because if the brand guidelines can't be implemented well, then it's all kind of a waste.

[Bill Kenney]

Yep.

[Heidi Sloane]

I mean, yeah, I've seen beautiful brand guidelines and then I've seen how the brand shows up in the world.

And I'm like, wait, but these guidelines.

[Bill Kenney]

What happened? Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds to me like you’re talking about the practical execution down to the executor level, designers, writers and strategists, marketing team, or you talking about decision makers all the way up to c-suite. You better be on the project too, because we need your decision making.

[Heidi Sloane]

Probably depends on the organization. At Nori, for me, it was important that Sophie, who is on the team, ongoing retainer with us as a brand designer and also, um, the product team who would have to think about how it would impact our certificates and our app and some of those types of things. So for Sophie being in the room, I was able to like, A, make sure her point of view was taken into account.

She's super talented and has good brand instincts, but also make sure what was in the final deliverable was enough. Like, not enough, but that she would say, okay, I've got it. I can take this and run with it. Or if there were gaps, he was able to ask Justin and Grant and get clarity, um, while we were still within that project scope.

And then the product side, I judge things kind of more like from an aesthetic. Ooh, this looks good point of view, but having some teammates, from the product side, they were kind of looking about usability and if a certain font would be able to be read and all those more technical, product-y implications.

So having the combination of, um, the brand designer and the product people in the room was really important, I think, for the success of the implementation.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah, great point. I would just state that those are very valuable objective opinions. Hey, cool typeface. But when it renders at this size, it's not going to be legible as opposed to I don't think I like it. That's not all that helpful. Right? So that's the divide there. I would just kind of tip my hat to you to say it also takes somebody running point on that.

Trying to aggregate those objective opinions and say, okay, well, maybe in marketing, we can use these assets, but that product level, we have to consider these types of implementations. And it can be a fine line to walk as you're trying to get those inputs, but still achieve something that is ultimately still beautiful, just from a pure visual perspective.

[Heidi Sloane]

And we're, we're really happy with how it turned out.

[Bill Kenney]

It looks fantastic. I, of course, I'm going to say that, but I, like I said earlier, I was literally looking through the brand style guide. And I'm like, man, this really turned out beautiful. There's something about the environmental play again, props, Earth Day coming. We should all care more about that, which is why we're recording this.

This, the scenery with the imagery.

[Heidi Sloane]

I mean: businesses listening!

[Bill Kenney]

And for the businesses listening, yes, yes, we can make that part of the outro.

[Heidi Sloane]

You can build climate impact into anything.

[Bill Kenney]

Yes, yes, yes. Go to your super connector, Nori, and they will help you be a part of the change that we all want to see in the world. Heidi, thank you so much. It was a pleasure getting to meet you. I'm proud honestly, that we're able to work with companies like you that are doing impactful things in the market. It is extra rewarding when we get to work on projects like Nori that have a clear, moral, positive environmental impact in the world.

So props to you all. Thanks for, thanks for hiring us and bringing us into your journey.

[Heidi Sloane]

Yeah. Thanks, Bill. Thanks for creating Focus Lab and then Odi so Nori's brand could work with you guys.

[Bill Kenney]

I look forward to seeing where Nori goes.

[Heidi Sloane]

Me too.

[Bill Kenney]

Okay. Until next time.