The Debrief: Heliux Rebrand

Another Odi episode of the Debrief is here! Odi is a B2B brand agency built from the team at Focus Lab specifically to serve early-stage startups. Today's guest, co-founder and CEO of Heliux Alex Craig, discusses why he felt brand was important in the pre-seed stage, his understandable fears, and his advice for other early stage founders considering their brand needs.

Check out more of our work with Heliux here.

0:00 - Intro
3:10 - How did you know it was time to invest in brand?
7:40 - What were you looking for in an agency partner?
10:25 - What was the most challenging part of the rebrand for you?
16:15 - What was the most rewarding part of the brand project?
23:09 - What has your new brand allowed you to do that you couldn't before?
25:42 - What advice do you have for a fellow founder considering investing in brand?

Full Transcript:

[Bill Kenney]

Hey everyone, Bill Kenney here, founder of Focus Lab and Odi I'm back with another episode of The Debrief. Really excited. It's been a minute since I've been able to sit down with a past customer and relive their rebrand journey. In today's episode, I had the pleasure of speaking with Alex Craig. He is the co-founder of a company called Heliux and we worked with him last year in the Odi agency model specifically because he is an early stage startup, pre-seed specifically, when he came to us. So. If you are the founder of an early stage company, and you're curious about what is it like to invest in brand that early, what's the true value of making that decision that early, and how somebody like Alex, somebody like yourself, is already benefiting from that type of decision, this is definitely the episode for you.

We talk about everything from starting to finishing, and in between, and going through a rebrand as a pre-seed to seed stage tech company. I think you're going to find a lot of value in this episode. I hope you enjoy.

[Bill Kenney]

Alex. Dude. Great to meet you. Like many of these interviews now, this is the first time that I get to meet people like yourself, which are our past clients having gone through a rebrand, but I'm no longer the designer and creative on the team.

So this is also exciting for me getting to meet you and hear your story. So why don't you tell everybody who you are and what the hell you're building at Heliux.

[Alex Craig]

Yeah, thanks, Bill. Super excited to be here. So I'm Alex, co-founder and CEO of Heliux, and we're building an all-in-one enterprise operating system for engineering and manufacturing companies to displace effectively a stack of point solution software that has existed in the past. So think rocket companies, robotic companies, automotive companies, we're building the software that will power their end-to-end operations.

[Bill Kenney]

Ah, now that I think about it a little bit of Detroit manufacturing vibe meets the modern world. I see, I see.

[Alex Craig]

Yep.

[Bill Kenney]

Everyone’s like what the hell are they talking about? Alex hails from the great city of Detroit. So There you go. All right, cool. So let's, so let's talk. So I'll give everybody a little background. So you worked with us last year, maybe about the middle of the year or so. We started the project in there somewhere. You realized it was time for Heliux to invest some time and energy and money into brand. So we're here to unpack what that's like.

And I will also remind everybody, this is not to highlight the work necessarily. This is very much so people can hear from a founder of an early stage startup very specifically on what it's like to go through this kind of brand journey to understand the pain points, the wins, the uncertainties, all that stuff.

So that when they, if they, decide to go through that journey, they don't feel like they're alone because it can feel that way if you don't know. So the first question I'll lead out with, which is really at the beginning of your decision making, which is like, how did you know it was time to really think about a brand effort?

[Alex Craig]

Yeah. So our, our prior brand was really put into place to, I don't know if I would even call it a brand, honestly, you know, it was a logo, so we can go and fundraise and we can speak to other prospective customers without looking like bozos, right? And it's pretty funny. My fiance actually almost kind of designed the logo.

So, prior to me incorporating and everything, yeah, she made me a t-shirt for Christmas, and Christmas of 2022, and just went on customink.com and found a futuristic looking font and threw it on a t- shirt. And I was like, wow, this is actually really cool. She's not a designer. She sells beer.

She's excellent at her job. And yeah, so she gave me that and I was like, Hey, you know, to this, to our first designer, can you just take this and tweak it? Cause I actually really liked this. And so we had the, it worked, it did its job, but

I knew that, you know, we're going through the middle of a fundraise. We're accelerating our engineering development. And what comes after that is we need to go and talk to as many customers as we possibly can to better understand the problems that we're solving and push this out to users.

We want people to be on our platform. Right. And I knew that the first impression was going to be so important. And despite being an early stage startup, I thought it was really important to have a true brand identity that we can start developing from day one. And I view it as like two different sides.

I think there's the creative side, which is, you know, the great work that Odi did for us. But respectfully, that's the easy part. The hard part is like earning the brand identity and the reputation. And that's through pure grit and hard work on the company. It's on us, right? And if you're good, those two will at some point meet, right?

They converge and they become one, right? And that's when you get like the Apples of the world and you walk into the Apple store and you're like, Oh my God, like, I just love this brand. I love this company. I don't know the names of anyone here. I don't even know the name of the CEO. Like, I don't know anything.

But like, I just love this apple, you know? And yeah, I just think that's super important.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah. Well, good on you to have that insight so early. It doesn't often happen that way. When you said you were going for your fundraise, where were you at that point? Was it seed? Yeah.

[Alex Craig]

So that was our pre-seed. We, we raised a really small amount of capital, you know, upon incorporation to, to just get started and you know, do some customer discovery, bring on some talent, but that was, yeah, our bigger fundraise relatively speaking, was this past fall.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah. Okay. Congrats. Yeah. I only asked that not because I care about the number personally, but so people can contextualize. Maybe in the conversation, depending on, you know, if a listener is at that stage, you're like, Oh, he did it pre-seed he was already thinking about brand. Right. I think some founders and organizations might be thinking, oh, I can't do that until I'm at A, B, you know, a larger round.

[Alex Craig]

Yeah. I, I think I understand why they might perceive that because look, it's not. But if you, if you hire the right agency, shameless plug, but if you hire the right agency, like it truly is an investment and it's worth it. And frankly, depending on who your customers are, but more times than not, especially in enterprise software.

You want to go to them with something that looks nice, looks professional. Again, you don't want to be that bozo, and you want to talk to them as early as possible. So if you're sitting in, you know, your basement hacking away on a product, not talking to any customers, not thinking about how you're going to actually distribute this product to customers, you're going to have a hard time.

If you're customer facing, like you want to, you want to invest in this as early as possible.

[Bill Kenney]

Agreed. And which is essentially, you noted it. You said the word Odi. A lot of these interviews historically so far have all been Focus Lab interviews, right? And we built Odi, our second agency, to meet clients like yourself where they're at, right? To actually help bring the price point down, speed the process up, but still create something of quality and not leave you with just the fiance's logo, right?

No knock to her and no knock to any freelancer or cousin or uncle that has created the initial identity for a founder, there's a time and a place for that. But like you said, like that worked until you needed something different. So, all right, well then you're left with the, okay, I believe it's time to do this.

Who the hell do I talk to? So my next question is like, how, how did you even know who to look for as a partner? How the hell did you even find us? I don't even know.

[Alex Craig]

Yeah, it's actually funny. I was a bit naive and I started reaching out to agencies way earlier than our pre-seed fundraise, when we didn't have much capital, thinking, okay, this might cost, I'm not gonna throw numbers out there, but, but it might cost around this much.

And I was actually like, almost had this sticker shock when I started talking to agencies, like, holy shit, it actually costs this much money. Okay. Like, I'm going to wait a little bit, but it's fine. So I actually spoke with Focus Lab and Genina in particular. Super early on. And she said to me, she goes, Oh, like, no way.

Like this is pretty, pretty serendipitous. We're actually about to launch this new agency — for you. Like, and I was like, okay, this is awesome. And so she provided the proposal. This was back in probably February of 2023. And I knew we were going to go to fundraise by the end of the year. So I said, look, let's not do this right now.

Let's wait until we're ready and have the financing to do this. And the first email I sent when we closed our round was to Genina. And I said, look, we're about to go ludicrous speed. We need to talk, like, do you have capacity, please? And, lo and behold, like you had capacity to start like literally, I think this was on a Tuesday, that next Monday.

And I work fast. Like I make decisions very quickly. Also why we worked really well together was Stetson.

It sounds like, all right, let's sign this contract and let's go because I don't want to lose any time on this. So I honestly, like, that was it. Yeah, we did speak to other agencies. But at the end of the day, like, frankly, you weren't the lowest cost provider, but you had the best portfolio and just that service was awesome. It was just such a personal, genuine relationship that I felt from your team members. And it made it a really easy decision.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah. Thank you for saying that. I'm happy to hear that. It is something that we obviously put a lot of emphasis on. I say obvious cause you have experienced it. We really care about the human side of these types of projects. It's not this robotic operation where you could just say like, okay, going to go back and make a thing and like, you get it and you're happy.

It's not a cold vendor relationship type of world that we live in. These things are very emotional. The decisions are very emotional. You're putting up real dollars, especially as a startup. There's a lot of risk and kind of emotional fear that goes with that. So you have to be able to, again, to kind of meet the customer where they are.

So I'm happy that we were able to fulfill that type of relationship for you. But projects are not easy. It doesn't matter how awesome we are, how awesome you are, you know, the best processes in the world, there is still an innate challenge and let's just call it fear again that can show up in these projects.

So from what did we spend together? Six weeks, eight weeks, somewhere in there. What do you think was the most challenging item for you?

[Alex Craig]

Yeah. It's probably the cold start problem in the sense that, you know, you have this, like, this, this gut feeling like, okay, I want the coolest brand in the world. And you're like, okay, what does that even look like? How do I get started? Right. Like, how do I start thinking about this? And it's interesting because when you're the, you know, co-founder of a company, and you have your team members, you have your customers, you have your product to think about all these different perspectives on the brand.

You can't just. Say, like, okay, this is what I want it to be because I want it to be that way. And so I kind of took a step back and actually spent a few hours after your team sent out some onboarding documents and just started thinking, okay, who are we? and what do we represent? and who are we targeting as customers? And who are our competitors? And why are we different from them?

And I sent Stetson an Excel spreadsheet with links to all like these, like, what inspires us? And on that there were videos, there was a Ferrari F8 video, which is awesome. You can just like hear the rev of the engine, you know, I'm like, okay, we want to be super innovative, yet classy like a Ferrari.

But then I sent JFK's, why go to the moon speech - inspirational, right? I'm sure I sent some Space X videos. I even sent. Well, shout out to Detroit, you know, Eminem. He's such a craftsman. Like he’s so intentional with how he writes his music and delivers his music, you know, to his listeners.

I'll say the biggest fear as well was probably like having a mismatch between the designer that was assigned to us, and us and you nailed that one because Stetson and I had a great relationship. We shared values, which is super important. He understood the abstract nature of what I was looking for, and obviously, you know, he delivered on it so that was tough though. It was tough. I thought it would be easier than what it was. And, luckily the team helped extract it out and it worked out.

[Bill Kenney]

That's right. It's very iterative in nature, right? It is a cold start. And even with all the onboarding documents that you kind of hinted at, like there's, there's still a cold start for both parties. I also love, and I want to highlight how important one thing that you said is because of, I believe you can correct me if I'm wrong, because of the fact that there's now a brand project that you've paid for.

It has started, you have, basically the urgency, but also the time and space to say, I have to sit down and think about these other things. What, who do we want to be? Who do we want to become? It's not that you couldn't do that on your own, but it's not often the top priority, right? It is not now front and center for you to say, I need to do this now because people are waiting on me.

So it creates this accountability to the founder, founders, project team, however big or small that is to sit down and think about those things, and that becomes so valuable of an exercise, this format really forces a founder's hand to do those things. And it's this kind of like it doesn't show up in the scoped items. You don't think about it as one of the valuable outcomes yourself when you're paying for this but god. That thing's valuable. It's invisible. It's super valuable.

[Alex Craig]

I wholly agree with you. And I think this should be a recurring exercise. This shouldn't just happen, like when it needs to happen. Right? And so, we did this on day one of the company and who do we want to be? Who are we serving? What is our product? You know, all these prerequisites to a funding exercise, but like really it's a prerequisite to like starting a company. Why would you start a company if you don't know the answers to those questions? I always tell people, especially like aspiring founders or those who work in startups, you can really tell at scale how the company was started, meaning like it truly is a representation of the founder.

And like, what did they do on day one? Did they sit in their underwear and like, think about stuff and play video games? Or like, did they force himself into a room and just get started and like, get cracking on it? And, I didn't have much time between my prior role and founding a company. In fact, I had a weekend, and so I just got to it and got started, right?

If you want to call it a weekend, I really do think that's the seed to what our company will look like one, five, 10, 20 years down the road. I hope that our team members will be able to say, okay, I know that like Alex just got to work on day one, and didn't, you know, dilly dally around and do other things like, yeah, there's a lot of vanity in, in starting a company and, and you can really easily go down the wrong path, I guess is what I'm trying to say.

And you can tell at any point in the company's life cycle.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah. And I think for me, adding more words to your story is doing it with intention, right? You're speaking as I got to work and it's like, okay, a lot of people get to work, but they might be working on the wrong things. That might be all over the damn place. You did it. Seemingly very intentionally step by step by step in that you're right.

That will show through five years, 10 years from now, because that becomes kind of the DNA of the organization, how it is started and how it is run. Starts to build the bones of how it operates for better or for worse. So props to you.

[Alex Craig]

When no one's looking, how is it run? That is how the company will evolve. And my favorite equation for this is velocity. you know, speed times direction is your velocity. You can't just go super fast in the wrong direction. You can't have the right direction, but not move at all.

You really need both in order to succeed.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah. Well said. Well said. And this is why I love speaking with people like yourself. All right. So we talked about the challenge. Cold starts. Whoo. They're tough. The anecdote to that is patience in case anybody didn't know. What is the most rewarding part of the project?

[Alex Craig]

Oh man, that's a good question. You learn a lot about what you don't know when you go through these processes, right?

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah.

[Alex Craig]

It’s cool because, team is, you know, you're not an expert in PDM, PLM, ERP, MBS software rocket, right? You're an expert in design. And so it's really cool when the team is asking questions that perhaps I've not heard before, and forcing me to think about who we are in a different light from a different perspective, I think it's just.

It was really rewarding, because you grow, you know, you're out of your comfort zone and, and, and it kind of forces you to think on your feet. And, so that was super rewarding. But man, it's also really cool. Like, just seeing, like, I go to our website, like, by 3, 4 times a day and just like, wow, okay, this is really cool.

I just, I love seeing the brand in action. I love seeing it on our product, right? Like I mess around their product all the time. And, when we're working with the customers and they’re screen sharing, I see them clicking through our product with our brand on their, super cool. Probably 2 weeks after you delivered the final deliverable, I purchased 100 t-shirts, right?

And for one of our first customers, I like. Put them in a box. I think it was a fruit box, and I hand delivered to them in El Segundo, California. And it was just like such a cool feeling. Like, here's our new brand. Like, thank you for being a partner. Here's 25 t-shirts. That was really rewarding as well.

So just everything, man, it's just been, it's been awesome working with this new brand, feeling proud of it. Being excited about the energy you can feel it with that, the color tones, with the abstract design. It's just, it's just like energy and focus. And, it represents who we are.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah. Fantastic. I love it. And I want to highlight something you said, because I think it's a great representation of your character. I've only just met you now for 21 minutes. The fact that you highlighted the most rewarding part for you, the first answer you gave was learning, right? I think that is a reflection of who you are.

It seems like you're hungry to learn. You respect the journey and all those things. I've not had that answer yet. So props to you. What I thought you were going to say is the first time you saw it on the IndyCar mockup. But that's all right.

[Alex Craig]

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. That also is super exciting. And it might. Give the learning a run for its money. The formula one mock up when I asked, that's in like, like, I want to sit on a formula one car. That's when I know it will click. It was like, if I can picture this on a formula one car where, you know, SAP Oracle, you know, our, our competitors are all plastered, Then I'll know and, and both he and Justin were like, okay, he's like, actually, Stetson goes, I do have one.

Like, I could do this. I could do this. I'm like, and then, like, if you have a sports arena, like, I want to see it big, like if we were to make it, what does this look like? And does it still fit? That was the litmus test for me and it did. It was like, Oh, this is awesome.

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah. Yeah. Looks killer in that representation as well. I saw it because even though I'm not in the day-to-day projects. I'm still, I mean, our team is only 25, 30ish people at any given time, right? Like I still see the majority of the Slack conversations and the wins.

And then I even saw the followup chatter after, like he saw that formula card, he's like.

[Alex Craig]

Yeah, yeah.

[Bill Kenney]

If there's a day where your brand makes it on something like that, you better believe I'm going to fly my ass out there and I'm going to be a part of that thing to celebrate you.

[Alex Craig]

Yeah, that's the North star, but I'd rather have our product, power, those formula one teams in their engineering and manufacturing operations. So if any, Scuderia Ferrari, you know, team members are watching this, please, yeah. Let us know we're here to power your operations.

[Bill Kenney]

All in due time. All in due time. Great things start from little beginnings, right?

[Alex Craig]

100%.

[Bill Kenney]

Everything gets there.

[Alex Craig]

Yep.

[Bill Kenney]

All right. Post project.

[Alex Craig]

Before we get into the post project. Do you mind if I just make one more comment about the project that it was insane how fast the project mood, like not, not in a bad way, like in a really positive manner? I think the team knew that I had this, this sense of urgency around me.

And I mean, Stetson was always steps ahead. And it was awesome. Like, I just want to mention that on this, like that was the best.

Cause I just have zero patience with anything. And so, like we got to move and, and they moved, man. They, they, they freaking moved. So thank you for that.

[Bill Kenney]

And again coming back to the point of Odi and why we built Odi, and why it is different from Focus Lab. It's offering Is meant to be more of that, right? It's exactly what a startup would need and nothing else. And that allows us to move faster. I'm really happy for you and your desire for speed that we were really able to deliver so quickly in the project for context again, for the people listening.

When I say six weeks and Alex knows this now, like. You've got your first week you're coming in, you're just kicking off, right? There's nothing being designed yet. You're kind of doing the onboarding documents and we're starting to set some of the visual language direction. So we're a little bit more targeted with where we're going.

And then it's off to the races. But then at the back end of the six weeks, still in that same window, you got to create a style guide, a robust document for you. So right in the, in the front end-ish to the middle, you've got, yeah, only 70 pages, Um, so we're doing all of that in the six weeks. It's not six weeks of picking out a logo.

It's like trying to speed into that, get the logo nailed, and then now build out all the assets. Color palettes and typography and all this other stuff that happens. That is, without sounding dramatic, that's a monumental task in that window of time, really.

But I think what happens is also people like yourself understand the constraint and we all work within the constraint. It is actually a positive if we look at it that way.

[Alex Craig]

Totally. And I'm sure, like, I've been on, you know, the professional services side in the past where, if you don't have that commitment from your client, the same commitment that you have to them, it's going to break. It's going to delay. It's not, it's not good for anyone. And so. The dedication from that side is super important. And so I think a lot of founders probably think like, you can just like throw this one over the hedges, and

[Bill Kenney]

Sure. Yes.

[Alex Craig]

I have the brand, like, no, it takes a lot of work.

You have to put it in in order to get the outcome that you want.

[Bill Kenney]

Yes. I appreciate you saying that that is probably the most important and most recurring theme of these calls. I think founders either know that coming in or they realize it and they share that, right? Like I didn't realize it was going to be so much work. I'm not mad about it, but holy crap that's a lot of work and it is and it should be quite honestly.

This is very much a a co-collaboration

All right. So let's talk about — we’ve got a couple minutes left here. Let's see. I'm gonna hit you with only two more questions. I'm gonna hit you with the final post project question and then one word of advice that you might want to share. So what has, and I know it's still relatively new.

You're not two years into having this asset and building upon it. But in the short time that you've had it, what has it allowed you to do that you couldn't do before?

[Alex Craig]

Yeah, I think it's enter the market with full force, honestly, because if we were to do it with our previous brand identity and then knowing that like, hey, at some point we do want to rebrand, it becomes that much harder to then switch things around. So I just knew, like, we need to nail it early and then we needed to take it to market.

In full force. So, yeah, it just has allowed us to kind of get ourselves out there with, with no little voice in the back of our head saying, okay, by the way, like, one of these days, you're probably going to rebrand. So be careful.

[Bill Kenney]

Okay.

[Alex Craig]

It just feels good. Like we don't have any, no constraints. When entering the market, because this is, you know, we committed to this, this is, this is what we're going to use.

This is who we are. And we're going to build, like I said earlier, you know, our side of the deal, putting in the hard work of building a product and selling to customers and providing them with the best experience ever. We're going to do that with no shame with this brand. Plastered on, you know, everything.

[Bill Kenney]

Hell Yeah.

[Alex Craig]

Yeah, it's honestly, it's given us the ability to operate with no constraints, knowing that, Hey, we don't have to go and change this in the near future. Which is a great feeling to have

[Bill Kenney]

Yeah. I was just going to say that must feel pretty freeing, especially at the stage that you're at as a company. You don't want to have to be thinking or worrying about that now. Right. You're kind of like. It's not this simple, but you're like, check that box. Now I can focus on this thing.

[Alex Craig]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I've seen, and I'm not knocking these companies by any means. Sometimes you have a change of heart or pivot and what you're building and who you are. So, there are many reasons to, to rebrand obviously. But I've seen many early stage startups. Who rebranded right after their seed or their Series A, and it's like, well, you just came up with the brand 12 to 18 months ago and built something off that.

And so it just becomes that much harder. And now kudos to them. They're probably selecting the next best time to do so, to do a rebrand. But, you know, as you, as you grow and as you build your business, and as you build your identity, it's going to become harder and harder and harder to rebrand without negative repercussions.

And we see it all the time. And so that was something that I think just unlocked that capability and delivering awesome t-shirts to our customers. So that was also awesome.

[Bill Kenney]

Right. Who doesn't want that? I mean, look at, look at me. I was like.

[Alex Craig]

Exactly.

[Bill Kenney]

What are you going to do? All right. So in closing, if you were talking to a fellow founder, friend, anybody in a position that they're saying, Hey, I'm, I'm thinking about investing in brand, or I'm nervous about investing in brand.

What would you tell them?

[Alex Craig]

One that it's worth it. It's a real asset of your business that you can truly build returns off of, quantitative returns and it's worth the investment. Like the ROI is huge. And it's never, it's never as scary as it seems, I'm sure it's probably, you know, the higher end of many founders' first few invoices that they'll have to pay.

But it’s worth it, you know, and, you can't get scared about those things, because you're going to see much higher invoices as the time goes on. I also think once you get over that hump, right, and you made the decision and you've signed the contract and you're starting to work with the agency, it's really okay to be creative and borrow from different points of your life, and your co-founders lives, and customer's lives.

And then just be super brutally honest and objective with the person who's sitting across the table from you, because there's no room to agree to disagree. I actually, I don't believe in that at all. Like you can't leave a room. Agree to disagree because nothing happened like, you didn't really make a decision.

The two people, assuming it's that simple of a problem, are still opposite ends of a spectrum in terms of whatever it is you're looking to solve, whatever problem you're looking to solve. And so, it's especially true when you're working with a partner like Odi or Focus Lab. You're not going to hurt anyone's feelings.

[Bill Kenney]

Nope.

[Alex Craig]

You have to put that aside and just be so truthful, even though it might seem like it's coming across as negative or hurtful. It's not. If it is, maybe work on your delivery, but everyone has to take all the emotions out and, and, and frankly just focus on the problem at hand.

And I think if you can do that, you can be really successful, so, I think it really just comes down to diving in and then being brutally honest and objective with whoever's sitting across from you. That's the best way to get this done.

[Bill Kenney]

Plus one. I agree with that. We need honesty in this process, right? What hurts our feelings or what we would be sad about is if someone was done. Dissatisfied and would have never spoken up, right? That would be a bummer.

I'd rather know this isn't resonating. Okay, great. Let's talk about it. Why? Like we as an agency can separate ourselves from the work, you're not saying you don't like us. You're just saying, I just don't like the solution. I don't think it fits us. Let's talk about it.

You have to be able to do that, especially on a six week project. There's no room for, let me see how the next week goes because I'm nervous about saying something. Speak, speak, speak.

[Alex Craig]

You’ve got to speak now. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. The earlier you identify that problem, the quicker you can solve it and the quicker you're, you're, you're onto a greener pasture or in the case of us founders, more problems to solve, right?

[Bill Kenney]

That's right. Yes.

[Alex Craig]

It’s your algorithm. You just got to nail that algorithm and branding is no different.

[Bill Kenney]

Agreed. Alex, a pleasure to meet you, sir. I really appreciate you coming on, on a Friday. Who knows when this thing will drop, but for me and you today it’s Friday.

[Alex Craig]

Awesome, man. Well, thank you. Thank you. By the way, I appreciate you taking the time and, really enjoyed working with you and your team on this, really proud to don our new brand, throughout. You know, the globe, let alone the streets of San Francisco.

So just super thank you to you and the team for all helping us out on this. You're, you're definitely part of our journey and we couldn't thank you enough.

[Bill Kenney]

That's what we care about. I think you nailed it specifically. We just want to be a part of the journey. How can we help lift up the people that we're working with to go on and do great things? And if we can do that, then we've done our job. I'll pass the love along to the team, although I know they already know it and feel it from you.

And, uh, until we meet again, sir, thank you.

[Alex Craig]

Thank you. Peace.

[Bill Kenney]

Peace.